babylon5fandomcom-20200225-history
Talk:Senna
Senna's story is found in the Legions of Fire novels. I didn't know she made an appearance on the screen! :) Perhaps someone can make reference to the books on the main page, if not describe her relationship to Londo (his 'ward' and the daughter he never had) and her place in the palace. Seebster 20:43, December 1, 2009 (UTC) ...or, not. Looks like an unrelated Senna, which is disappointing. Not sure how to remove my last comment. Seebster 20:45, December 1, 2009 (UTC) :Don't worry about it. I think it was indeed Peter David's intention that the nanny from 'In The Beginning' be Refa's daughter, but the novelization directly contradicts this by having her as an old House Jaddo retainer. Fortunately I think it's very plausible that there just so happens to be (at least) two young women with the same first name serving as nannies in the Royal Court at the same time, so it's not a direct contradiction as far as I can determine. Blind Wolf 22:15, December 1, 2009 (UTC) How is this a contradiction? I don't see how having her be an "Old House Jaddo retainer" contradicts this. True, House Jaddo was absorbed into House Mollari in Knives, but that does not mean that the house itself ceased to exist, particularly with the numerous individuals (including Urza's wife and children) still comprising House Jaddo. However, Senna Refa was found as an orphan and basically a street rat, and Londo still took her in. In order for her to become part of his house (or any attached house, such as House Jaddo), he would have had to give her a position, a place, in the house. A retainer is basically a trusted aide and servant. Makes perfect sense to me. And, doesn't it mention in Legions of Fire how drunk he was when he met with Luc, Lyssa, and their nanny, so completely toasted that he could barely sit up straight much less recognize anyone? (Explains why he put people he knew into roles in the narrative that they could not possibly have played in real life, i.e. Sherridan, Franklin, and G'Kar.) And after meeting with them, he has a moment of clarity where he believes he recognizes the woman. I don't personally own the Legions of Fire trilogy, and haven't read it in many years, so I cannot say for certain, but I believe it was connected between In the Beginning and Legions of Fire that Senna the nanny and Senna Refa are in fact the same woman. KenoSarawa 22:12, July 10, 2010 (UTC) :The novelization (which was also written by Peter David I might add) specifically states that this Senna was with House Jaddo when it was absorbed into House Mollari, which was in 2259 when Lord Refa was still alive. Hence she can't be Refa's daughter. Plus in that book he's only vaguely familiar with the woman, defiantly not the same girl he'd taken under his wing some 15 years previously. Plus there's her baring and personality in the movie which doesn't match Senna Refa at all. The idea that Londo was too toasted at the time to remember who's who is just ridiculous. The man just sat there and told a protracted and coherent story which includes events that took place decades ago and you think he's going to forget that his surrogate daughter is sat right in front of him? No. Blind Wolf 10:39, July 11, 2010 (UTC) The Same Senna The framing sequence of the novelization was essentially rewritten and retconned as Londo's journal excerpts in the the third Legions of Fire book, so I don't think the contradictions should be treated as binding. These things happen. If we're going to insist on having two Sennas to resolve the discrepancy, where does it end? Do we have two Timovs, too, since the last time Londo saw here as described in the ITB novel is completely different than what happened in Legions? For that matter, did Sheridan destroy the Black Star twice, once in between Jupiter and Mars as per "Points of Departure" and also in deep space years before the war came anywhere near Earth as in ITB? I can't see any sense in assuming there are two Sennas in the Royal Court because the novelization of In the Beginning doesn't absolutely perfectly agree with the Legions of Fire books, including the corresponding sections of Out of the Darkness, where there's every indication that the Senna that was taking care of Luc and Lyssa is the exact same Senna we've been following for three novels. In the passage where Senna and the children arrive in the Throne Room, Londo is depicted as being extremely drunk, and the damning line about Senna being a member of House Jaddo is rewritten to omit that reference: "The voice— musical, softly accented— is unfamiliar to me... No... wait... I know... yes. Senta, was it? No... Senna, I think her name is. She is... a nurse or child attendant around here, I think. Or perhaps... yes... a retainer to one of our Houses." (Out of the Darkness, pg 208) A chapter later, in the part corresponding to the framing epilogue of ITB:'' "And as Senna ushered them out... I remembered her. For a brief moment, I remembered who Senna was... and then it was gone."'' (ibid, pg 214) So, ridiculous or not, the implication is that all it takes is planetary armageddon, the impending execution of at least three close friends, and several bottles of expensive liquor to make Londo oblivious to his relationship with his own surrogate daughter. Go argue with Peter David for deciding to expand a one-shot character in one of the telemovies into a major part of his trilogy. And then there's this: "As Vir made his way hurriedly down the corridor toward Londo's private chambers, he ran into Senna coming in the opposite direction. ... And then, before either of them even realized it, they were in each other's arms, and he kissed her hungrily. ... "'The children... do you need to bring—' "Senna shook her head. 'Luc and Lyssa's parents picked them up a few minutes ago. They have a bunker they built some time ago that they're taking the children to. They'll be perfectly safe.'"'' (ibid, pg 218)'' So, if Senna and Senna aren't the same person, then (ignoring the shoddy narrative work of bringing in a character for one scene who has the same name as another, primary character, and never making the slightest attempt to distinguish them) either ITB Senna escorted the children from Londo, gave them to Senna Refa, who then passed them on to their parents or ITB Senna just popped in fifty pages before the end of the trilogy, disposed of Senna Refa off-page, and usurped her role in the narrative, to the point where she's making out with Senna Refa's boyfriend in the halls without anyone commenting on it. Or they're just the same person, and when Peter David decided to expand her role, he altered some elements of her backstory that he introduced in the earlier work (made long before anyone knew he'd be writing a Centauri Prime trilogy), just as he did with giving Timov something more complext to do than show up one day at the Palace, laugh in Londo's face, and then leave, never to be seen again, as described in ITB. David cgc 04:16, April 7, 2011 (UTC) : You are correct. I finished "Out of the Darkness" just now, and to my surprise, given what I had read on this wiki, it is explicit about Senna Refa being the woman who looked after Luc and Lyssa. I'll add that in an earlier passage set a few years before, Londo was already having problems with his more recent memories (specifically contrasted later on with his ease in remembering events from decades ago) and temporarily forgot who Senna was, several chapters before he did so again during the story. Senna = Senna. Obviously, any contradictory statements in the novelization are overridden by Out of the Darkness, which is endorsed canon. -- Noneofyourbusiness 17:55, July 2, 2011 (UTC)